One of Genentech's already wrapped buses.

First posted Dec. 4, at 10:45 a.m., updating to keep it in front of artists. 

Yes, Mission Local is still giving a $500 reward for the best entry into our unofficial contest to turn the tech buses into art.

But what’s better is that it is no longer completely unofficial.

Apart from our prize money — which was more of a gesture to those artists willing to give something unofficial a try — Genentech wants to bedazzle its buses and will select one winner whose art will adorn the side of one of its buses in 2014!

Genentech’s financial arrangement with that artist is between Genentech and the artist, and that artist could be someone different than our selection. Who is to say that we have the same taste, but we might.

Genentech’s interests are similar to ours: community mindfulness. And sustainability themes might also play well.

Send submissions for the first round to by Dec. 31, 2013.

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Founder/Executive Editor. I’ve been a Mission resident since 1998 and a professor emeritus at Berkeley’s J-school since 2019 when I retired. I got my start in newspapers at the Albuquerque Tribune in the city where I was born and raised. Like many local news outlets, The Tribune no longer exists. I left daily newspapers after working at The New York Times for the business, foreign and city desks. Lucky for all of us, it is still there.

As an old friend once pointed out, local has long been in my bones. My Master’s Project at Columbia, later published in New York Magazine, was on New York City’s experiment in community boards.

Right now I'm trying to figure out how you make that long-held interest in local news sustainable. The answer continues to elude me.

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  1. Mission Local will be well served by abandoning such a stupid idea. If by happenstance it ever came to fruition that BUS would be a major target for the angry populace.

    I hear rumblings about this contest that started as “joke” but now it’s really a “BIG JOKE”.

    1. I’m not aware that the populace is “angry”. I’m aware that a small group of left-wing extremists are trying to generate some anger about this (I guess they have now officially moved on from bankers) but I see no evidence that many people share their prejudice.

      Nor do I perceive any credibility to your thinly-veiled threat. Breaking a few store windows in the Mission was tried a couple of years ago and that achieved nothing either.

      If you want the law changing, go to the ballot. And give art a chance.

    1. class war equals increased crime and segregation! yay! go America!!! If John is your representation here, then this whole “mission local” thingy you got going is about a devoid of any culture as I originally suspected…. keep it street! wanna get really FAMOUS really quick kids.. Find out where the drivers park these here buses and go crush them with a few burners and fills… That shit will hit the news, and your “name” will be recognized the world over.. you’ll have shows in Berlin, New York, Tokyo, might have to do 18months in San Mateo, but that’s a small price to pay to get your art career off the ground stat!!!

  2. 78 of 169 comments (46%) from one commenter. This percentage indicates flame wars between that commenter and various foils. The best hope is to ignore this commenter and hope he tires of talking to himself.

    1. 91 posts from others indicates a wide diversity of commentators here. An elevated level of activity here is good for ML and good for those who enjoy lively debates and intelligent commentary.

    2. I would appreciate more balance and fewer “flame wars”. However, divergent viewpoints make for interesting discussions, and ideally, greater understanding.

    1. That sounds elitist, Tuffy. $500 is a lot of money to many artists, and I believe that there have already been entries to the contest, proving you wrong.

      1. ok, F#$%K that. listen BRO! 500.00 in todays economy is not “alotta monneey” for “some” artists, it barely covers not-crappy materials, the phone bill, and the electric bill. it’s peanuts. Unless you’re talking about the 18yr old “artist” who lives in pac heights?, or the, “trust fund” artists, whom I imagine would just spend it at the bar!, but most of them leave after art school, because mommy and daddy won’t pay the rent anymore… give me a f#$KIN break with that crap already.. Peanuts… I just did a mural last week that took ten hours, and got paid 1k, for the job, giving them a break, because it’s a small business trying to make it in a big big world…

        1. Pay is determined by the value of what you produce and not by what lifestyle you think you would like to aspire to.

  3. Paging Supervisor David Campos, are you there? Come in, David! The Mission continues to be decimated through the eviction epidemic, techies moving in and paying big condo fees, and the Mission Local site that kisses your butt biweekly with a silly chat with you is holding a contest to make some of the techie buses pretty. And what is Campos doing? Putting his energy into moving up the political ladder and becoming a state assemblymember.

      1. Yes, what often happens in SF is that a tiny extremist minority make a lot of noise against something, while the overwhelming silent majority are in favor, but are not in the habit of ranting about it.

        That is why Lee comes out with a 73% approval rating today even while leftists claim that he is wildly unpopular with his pro-tech, pro-jobs, pro-homes policies.

    1. Do you want to get rid of the UCSF buses as well?

      Should we decide such prohibitions on the basis of your personal views of what types of jobs are honorable?

  4. Ignore the troll.

    The Mission Local troll “is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a forum, chat room, or blog), either accidentally or with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.

    Pity the troll

    1. The simplest way to identify a troll is not notice whether the person posts on the topic of the article. Or whether they try and attack another person.

      I try very hard to always post on topic. Your post could reasonably be classified as purely directed at another person, and so trollish.

      1. I reply directly to you my dear chap. Don’t be delusional since your attempts at making intelligent comments are nothing but empty gibberish.

        You fit the fit the definition of the ML Troll quite perfectly.

        1. No, because my posts are always on topic, unless directly challenged.

          Your mistake is equating a person expressing an opinion that disagrees with your view, with a troll. But that is a miscategorization, albeit a common one.

          I usually know I have won the debate when someone plays that “last resort” card.

          1. I’d make the same invitation. I believe that I stay on topic more than most here, and resort to name-calling less than most people. If I am a troll here, then so are most.

            The problem, as noted, is that the word “troll” tends to be attributed only to those who the speaker disagrees with. But I will never dilute the truth to curry favor. Nor lack the courage to speak the truth just because an audience is hostile and unreceptive.

    2. Most of the readers respond genuinely to the ML posts. But the ML troll seems more interested in disagreeing with each and every comment.

      Ignore the troll friends.

      1. I think Fyodor came closest to trolling here, constantly changing tack, going off-topic, making personal attacks and linking false citations.

        Quite why an art project brings out such zeal and aggression has baffled a few people here.

          1. I’d make the same invitation. I believe that I stay on topic more than most here, and resort to name-calling less than most people. If I am a troll here, then so are most.

            The problem, as noted, is that the word “troll” tends to be attributed only to those who the speaker disagrees with. But I will never dilute the truth to curry favor. Nor lack the courage to speak the truth just because an audience is hostile and unreceptive

  5. Based on the comments posted here, it appears that most folks except “John” (who seems to have nothing better to do with his time other than post on Mission Local) are not in support of this ridiculous contest.
    Onward …

    1. I doubt that you have any viable basis for claiming to speak for “most people”. Most people I know don’t have a problem with these buses and some of them use these buses.

      I just wish people were more honest about why it is these particular vehicles that upset them so much more than other large vehicles that cause just as many alleged problems.

      Where is the same anger about double-parked FedEx trucks or Recology refuse trucks? What about Muni buses that come off their wires and black the streets for several minutes?

      Oh wait, they don’t have rich people in them.

  6. In case there are questions from the troller regarding the use of Muni stops. Clamp down on tech buses using Muni stops coming soon.

    “SAN FRANCISCO (KCBS) — Private tech company buses and shuttles that have been using San Francisco Municipal Railway bus stops could soon have to follow some new rules as the city’s transportation agency board is set to decide on proposed regulations in January.

    The San Francisco Metropolitan Transportation Agency said the private shuttles and buses carry about 35,000 workers a day to and from companies like Google, Facebook and Genentech using more than 200 Muni stops around the city”

    1. The articles doesn’t really say it is illegal for other types of buses to use a SFMTA bus stop. It does however imply that SFMTA are entitled to prescribe some guidelines.

      Fair enough, and I think such guidelines should reflect that a Google bus only uses such stops ten times a week as opposed to, say, UCSF shuttles that run constantly for 18 hours a day.

      SFMTA also acknowledges that if thse shuttles were not running, that would be thousands more cars on the roads, which would show down Muni probably more than the odd shuttle bus.

      Again, non issue in the big picture, unless of course you have it in for successful enterprises and their workers.

  7. Dear Mission Local,
    Continuing this contest is ill-advised.

    ML doesn’t need reminders that this is a wedge issue. There is no community building of any sort. Of course Genentech is going to jump on this – it’s good PR for them! The buses, whether colorful or not, are rolling PR reminders to many long-term (and short-term) City residents living in fear of eviction by some, if not many, of the riders in these buses.

    Most people took this as a humorous “contest” but there is nothing humorous about the state of affairs in our city – particularly for so many of the residents in the Mission.

    Most readers will not take time to comment on stories but many chose to do so on this one. Wonder why?

    You will loose many faithful readers if this contest/charade continues.

    1. Again, I take the opposite view. Most people i know have no real issue with these buses either way, either about the alleged “obstruction” nor with any ideological opposition to success.

      Nor do they see these buses as related to evictions, and I have seen no evidence linking the two.

      Sure, there is a minority of people like you who do not like them, mostly for ideological reasons, it seems. But then there are people who like them and, of course, use them. They are Mission residents as well.

      You are trying to paint a picture where everyone agrees these buses are a bad thing, but the facts do not back that up.

      In any event, Mission Local should not be left-wing or right wing. They should be an objective, neutral source of information. And if anything, they err towards the leftist viewpoint, with a seemingly endless stream of articles about eviction-this and eviction-that, which some Mission residents like me consider to be biased.

      But overall, they should stay neutral. And occasionally provocative.

    1. Would you prefer a thread and topic that isn’t lively?

      47 comments were not by that one person. that shows the debate is important and worthwhile.

    2. Agree – not productive. One commenter trying to respond to each post. Just a troller trying really hard to be heard. Pity.
      Close the thread ML.

      1. Why does free speech scare you?

        Why do you want to shut down, censor and suppress debate?

        Why do you call a troll anyone who disagrees with you?

  8. Mission Local “failed” on this one. There is no reason to attempt to sanitize or camouflage these insidious buses. I suspect there may some artists that will submit a design or two but that will not relieve what the buses stand for — tech companies ruining the social and economic diversity of the city. They can be covered with roses for all we care but they will still leave their stinking money trail. I see the tipping point in the horizon since these cycles come and go but this time people across the city (young/old/poor/working class/middle class/white/brown/black) are now pushed against the wall. Nothing else to do but push back. I’m going to be there and hope you will too.

    1. No, Mission Local got this right by showing there are two sides to very issue, and not taking a narrow, ideological bias on this topic, as sadly some people are prone to do.

      This contest is a great idea.

      1. Mission Local “FAILED” on this one. Period. This is not a news story. It’s an update on a contest by MIssion Local. Started by MIssion Local. I think that by now you have a good idea of the reasons why it “FAILED” by looking through the posts. You’ve read and answered most of them.

        1. Wrong. It is too soon to say whether the contest is successful or not.

          If an artist wins $500 and the design gets adopted, that would be a 100% success for all.

    2. I will predict that there will be a backlash against Mission Local. Primarily because the buses represent a volatile issue in the Mission and the rest of the City. The “contest” has given Mission Local less credibility to further report objectively on Genentech (and other tech bus providers). ML now has to sit down with Genenentech and judge the artwork. Really? There is no transparency with this contest and gives the illusion that ML is cozying up with these corporations. ML has lost it’s credibility.

      1. I disagree. Mission Local would have LESS credibility if they cowered in the face of a handful of noisy activists over the wishes and interest of many others here.

        Opponents of liberty and freedom always try and shout down truth tellers, and that is what is happening here. The envy mob are picking on these buses not because of their tiny impact on traffic but because of what they represent – success and prosperity.

        And for some reason, these ideologs hate success and prosperity. The whining about this competition is self-serving political noise emanating from a loud sub-group who are opposed to growth, development, progress and success. They are NIMBYs and luddites.

        In that context, a few buses become a symbol of their bias and prejudice. When really all they are are a form of commuting that gets cars off the street.

        Non issue. Keep it up, Mission Local, and do not give in to bullying.

  9. The other issue is at least before even though it was a flawed contest, there may have been some entries which were critical of google buses (which has become the generic term for tech buses just like google has become a generic term for searching).

    But now that the “winner” will go on a Genentech bus, an entry critical of google buses can’t win or if in the unlikely event it does, Genentech won’t wrap their bus in it.

    Or if say an artist did something on the ACT UP protests against Genentech in San Francisco (or anything else critical of Genentech)

    1. Steve, why politicize it at all?

      Sometimes art is just art, and people need to take everything a little less seriously and self-importantly.

  10. A $500 “reward” for a design of this scale? This is grossly inadequate, and artists need to stop buying into low or no compensation with the promise of “exposure.” This is very sad.

      1. No.

        Just because some people enter the contest doesn’t make it right.

        By your reasoning, if someone decides to rob a store, we should be fine with it because someone did it.

        This isn’t about taking a political stance.

        It is about a media publication started by a journalism school running a contest. A school which should teach journalists and artists shouldn’t work for free for the chance for one artist to be underpaid at $500. And then changing it to be on an actual bus of a company with over $13 billion in revenue.

        A company with buses so ugly (not even taking into consideration their ugly impact), they should be giving artists a lot of money to make them look better.

        1. Wrong, Steve. Contests and competitions are routinely used for things like architecture and art projects, both private and public.

          Artists, architects and others are familiar and comfortable with the idea of submitting an entry knowing that they might not win or get paid. It’s how the system works.

          The Sydney Opera House design was a competition, and nobody complained just because there was only one winner.

          I’m not in the business of telling artists what they should or should not try out for. why are you?

          1. As someone works as a photojournalist (and sometimes my photos are shown in art exhibits) covering culture (among other things), I know many creative people believe contests to be exploitive.

            This is just one of many articles making that argument


            Some architects also are critical of competitons. even for those who are fine with it, there is a big difference between asking individual artist to work for the possibility for one to win $500 and large architectural firms competing for a project which will pay millions.

            The people critical of the mission local contest aren’t telling artists what to do. We’re telling mission local why we object to the contest.

          2. Steve, I can understand why some artists and architects dislike contests, especially those who feel they should be paid for time and effort, rather than quality and results.

            Likewise there are other artists who welcome the opportunity to sidestep the usual beauty contests and nepotism, and have an equal shot with the big boys to get a commission. Same reason many people buy lottery tickets, only where the outcome is totally luck or random.

            However, those opposing this ML contest seem confused as to why. Some, like you, may not like contests, but then of course they simply do not take part. There is no reason to try and stop the contest.

            Others supposedly object only because these buses use Muni stops, although that argument is barely credible.

            And others again clearly have an issue with these buses because they perceive them as a symptom of gentrification. In that case their objection is ideological only.

            What concerns me is that people are not content to merely ignore the contest if they do not like it. Rather they seek to stop it even for those who love the idea, and that is what I do not get.

  11. The problem with these busses is not that they are “boh-ring,” to quote the original post, but that they block MUNI stops (which aren’t private and should be accessible) and regularly take insane routes (like a left turn from Valencia onto 18th street) that large vehicles should not be making without the kind of traffic signal accommodation that planned public transit gets. It’s dangerous. Plenty of private and semi private busses in the city run without these problems… College shuttles, hotel shuttles, the shuttle I take to work, have figured out how to load and unload passengers without blocking public bus stops or overloading streets designed for small-vehicle traffic.

    And then the $500 bucks. I can’t do better than agree with Stephanie about the problem with artists being asked to do things for the benefit of “exposure.”

    1. Maggie, if bus lanes are not just for Muni buses but for all buses, then why aren’t bus stops not just for Muni buses but for all buses?

      The typical Muni route has a bus stopping at any given stop about once every 15 minutes. The space is hardly over-utilized.

      Personally I am happy to see such commuter buses as it keeps cars off the streets.

      1. John:
        1. Who appointed you to respond to EVERY SINGLE COMMMMMMMMENT?
        2. Do you not understand the difference between “public” and “private”? MUNI buses are public, paid for by residents through taxes, and accessible to EVERYONE, whether tech worker or homeless person. This is why MUNI buses have special status, and special spaces to stop and load, and special lanes that only they can use. The tech commuter buses are private. Their companies own them, and only company employees are allowed to ride them. And they are using PUBLIC SPACE to do private, privileged things. I.e., we are all paying for Google to cart its overpaid workers around, while the buses that the rest of us use, have to wait. The tech companies can well afford to pay for their own bus stops, and let MUNI buses go first, always. The fact that they don’t is of a piece with the oblivious entitlement displayed by the tech workers whose wealth is driving longtime residents out of the Mission.

      2. I too am happy to see people taking busses rather than driving. But I am not happy when I’m riding MUNI and my bus can’t use a stop because a private bus is already loading/unloading there. This happens on Haight all the time, and I’ve also seen it near Church & 30th. And because I ride a shuttle to work myself, I know it’s possible to plan a shuttle route without commandeering a MUNI spot for loading.

        1. Maggie, i’m sure the logistics for sharing bus stops can be improved.

          The more important point here is that many of those who seem unduly upset by a handful of buses that only arrive ten times a week is exaggerated and motivated by some kind of ideology and dislike of success.

          And that isn’t worthy of a city that celebrates tolerance.

  12. As if the economic/political implications of this project isn’t bad enough, the fact that they’re excited to offer a mere $500 for the “giant” opportunity to have an artist’s work up on a Genentech bus smacks of the assumption that artists can be paid low amounts of $$ for “exposure.” If they were serious (and that would be another problem), they would put down hefty funds to commission new work and partner in a real way. This Mission Local project exploits the unpaid labor of many artists (all who submit proposals) to reward just one with a mere pittance. As is mentioned in the article description, the funds are coming from an anonymous donor. Genentech gets it for free. This is not investment into the artistic community but free cultural capital/advertising on a corporation’s part. This is wrong in SO SO many ways.

    1. Stephanie, if anyone knows the value of a product or service, it is surely someone who lives and breathes a market economy, such as a cutting edge tech company.

      And not, say, an ideologically-limited activist?

      If $500 is not enough, then no artist will enter the contest. Fair enough.

      If they do come forward, then clearly you were wrong. As I suspect, since I know a few folks who could use $500 and who often work for less.

      1. $500 is the going rate for what is called “spot illustration”, you know those little headers in the new yorker magazine..? those go for $500 per piece, and genentech, is no new yorker magazine…

        I know muralists that work at this scale goes for upwards of 20k, so basically, just a slap in the face, to any self-respecting artist. It would be great for an 18 art school kid with a bunch of spray paint though, then you’d get your crayons as dicks on a bus like you want.

        1. Anyone running a contest is free to set the prize at whatever level they see fit. And every artist is free to enter or not enter.

          Are you predicting zero responses because the prize is too low? If so, will you admit that you are wrong if there are in fact genuine entries?

      2. Yea for sure! I remember my elementary school ‘design a logo’ competition had $500 for first prize, it was so competitive almost 200 entries. 10 years back but good memories, will let my nephews and kids around the hood know about this contest.

      3. Haha, can you act a little bit more like libertarian acolyte, please? I’m getting what you’re going for, but you really need to start mumbling something about the Fed and the Austrian school if you really want to get the likeness right.

  13. Dear Genetech,

    I would like to propose that you turn your busses into CADILLAC RANCH as an art project and start taking regular public transportation.

  14. If the artist still owns the design (i.e., Genentech or others would also have to pay the artist to use it anywhere else), it could be worth the $500. Good visibility for the artist, if you don’t mind being associated with the corporation.

    1. It’s possible that an artist does mind being associated with a corporation but needs the money.

      Many of us are willing to sacrifice our principles because we wish to prosper.and flourish.

    2. It’s actually a pretty insulting offer for painting an entire bus (I hope they at least spring for paints!) But that seems to be the trend from a lot of these tech companies; proclaim support for the arts and the community while not providing anything in the way of actual meaningful support.

      1. If you are correct, Fyodor, then no artist will enter the contest.

        Is that your prediction? And if there are entries, will you admit that you were wrong?

        1. Hahaha… get a life dude!

          I really don’t give a hoot if they get some high schooler to scribble on their bus. My opinion is that the offer is pretty insulting. There’s no right or wrong about it, as it’s MY OPINION, capiche?

          Obviously my opinion bothers you so much you want to have a pissing match on the internet over it.. to which I can only say: “Fer christ’s sake! Get over yourself”.

          This all begs the question though… you seem to have a lot of skin in the game over what’s just some dumb little PR stunt… What’s your deal anyways? You on Gentech’s PR squad or something?

          1. No skin in the game, Fyodor. And it’s fine if you personally think $500 isn’t worth getting out of bed in the morning. But do not disrespect others for whom $500 is a meaningful payday.

            If the contest is successful then your judgment will be proven wrong, as I suspect. Meanwhile you might find it helpful to listen more and talk less.

          2. It’s rich that you of all people think someone else should “listen more and talk less”. =)

            Did the part where I wrote that “my OPINION could not be proven wrong, as it was my OPINION” just totally float through your ear gaps?

            Let me break it down really simply for you so you can hopefully learn something and stop making the same mistake over and over again.

            1. It is my opinion that $500 dollars is an insulting offer.

            2. If someone chooses to accept that compensation for their time and efforts, I could not care less. (although I personally question how much effort and/or talent such an offer would attract)

            3. (and this is the part I think you’re having the most trouble with) My opinion that it is an insulting offer remains unchanged regardless of other people’s decisions.

            My opinion is based on:
            a) My understanding of the time and effort required to make create a mural
            b) My understanding of the going price for creating quality commercial art.

            These relative constants aren’t changing because someone decided to enter the contest.

            Understand now? Because I really don’t want to have to think of simpler way of explaining this. ;P

          3. My understanding is that the competition has received entries and so evidently your opinion is not shared by those who actually make art rather than merely talk about what artists should and should not do.

          4. Regardless of your claims, that doesn’t make my opinion wrong, John.

            Can you please give me “some” indication that you actually listen to and understand the words other people write to you?

            And hey, check out my art anytime you want to dude, my name links to my website.

          5. you’ve already been proven wrong, Fyodor.

            You claimed that artists would be “insulted” by winning $500. They are not, evidently.

            Of course, it is just MY OPINION that you are wrong about that. Are you suggesting that I am not entitled to that?

          6. Ugh… I thought we had move passed this. My opinion is not and can’t be wrong by dint of it it being AN OPINION.

            You can say you disagree, but when you say my opinion has been proven WRONG you’re just showing everybody that your a close-minded moron, ignorant of what the very concept of an OPINION even means, and utterly unable to accept the very existence any divergence of opinion from your own.

          7. Of course an opinion can be wrong, if it an opinion about a fact.

            Your opinion was that artists would not work for $500. And some have so you were wrong.

          8. False.
            I said that the offer was pretty insulting.

            I invite you to point out where exactly I said that no artist would work for $500 and I’ll await your apology for lying once you fail to do so.

          9. $500 is a lot of money to many artists who, typically, don’t earn a lot.

            I think it is insulting to artists to tell them that $500 isn’t very much when it would probably make a big difference to many of them.

            Moreover, as Lydia explained, the 500 is just from ML. If Genentech use the image, they will pay more, no doubt.

          10. You’ve been insulting artist’s all up and down this thread, accusing us of being jealous and vindictive and accusing us of engaging in class warfare every time we make a claim you disagree with but can’t refute… It reeks of crass opportunism and desperation for you claim to feel concerned about the feelings of artist’s now. Especially when numerous artist’s in this thread and Mission Local themselves have already agreed that it’s probably an unacceptably low offer for the service being requested.

            And I’m still waiting for you to apologize for your blatant lie. I don’t appreciate it when people accuse me of saying things I never did and you should at least have the courage to man up to your mistake.

          11. There is no way to know whether anyone here is an artist or not, so your point is moot.

            What I do know is that you want to cancel an innocent art competition on ideological grounds. And nobody believes it is because you are concerned about minor traffic regulations.

            If you don’t want to enter the contest, then don’t. But why seek to stop others from doing so? It’s petty, spiteful and vindictive.

          12. hahaha… but I don’t want to cancel the contest and I never said I did!

            Stop lying and I’ll give you the massive troll of the year award your obviously gunning for.

          13. Since you have just admitted that you do not oppose the contest, you have both conceded my point and admitted that you are the troll here.

            I’m just sorry I wasted so much time taking you seriously enough to bother refuting.

          1. I invite you again to point out where exactly I said that no artist would work for $500 and I’ll await your apology for lying once you fail to do so.

          2. I’m not going to rehash yesterday’s arguments. Readers can easily find my refutations of your position for themselves if they are interested.

            This thread is already too long. It’s done. Move on.

    1. Clarion, the Mission Local is a news and information source. It isn’t a party political hack activist site.

      Many of us come here for balanced and neutral coverage of events and incidents, and not for kneejerk ideology.

      and many of us are employed by the businesses that you probably hate.

      1. ok buddy… I was just gonna move on, but this one stuck in my craw… I am a (loosely) member of Clarion Alley Mural Project, as in, I have a wall there, that I’ve painted basically for free, purchasing materials out of my own pocket, with friends for free, for at least 10 years.. I do this to be an active participant in “my community”, not to get fame, or recognition, but just to paint out of doors.. I don’t even care about mission local. My Daughter was born here, I am not from here, but I moved here to subscribe to the then (97′) thriving artist community and be an active participant, which I have been, and remain to be.

        I’m also a sign painter, and I know for certain the work of a local sign company was executed at Facebook, recently, And i’m quite certain for much more that a measly $500.00 . I’ve done single window signs for more than that. It’s dis-respectful, straight up. It deserves the dick-crayon drawings mentioned above. These buses, are not MUNI, which gives them no right to use city bus stops. but they do so often. I’m sure they can afford the now imposed fines I heard were being imposed for such offenses, and, so they don’t really care. That much is obvious. You don’t really care, that much is obvious. I just think it’s sad, when people come to anywhere, bringing whatever they have, and insist that the community that already exists just take it. and, take it.. “Those that rush right in, get rushed right out” All of this will pass, or it will become what maybe the super wealthy want it to be, an expensive place for white people to live free from danger. global segregation, if you will. ((NO BROWN PEOPLE)).. Which, means That I will take my hack activist ways to the road, along with my family, and all of the beautiful things I can make with me. Your loss. Funny thing is buddy, if the distribution of wealth from all this nonsense was actually more community centered, hell, i’d paint all those buses for free.
        i’m sorry I read this feed. you are sad.

        1. David, I’m not suggesting that your viewpoint isn’t welcome here, as much as mine or anyone else’s anyway.

          The point i was addressing here was the idea that Mission Local should have some kind of clear ideological and political bias either for and against corporations, successful people or anything else.

          This is not a socialist rag, although i am sure those are out there somewhere if that is what you like. This organ tries to be objective and to welcome the views of all Mission residents and interest parties, and not just those who tow some party, partisan line.

          1. John,

            For the record pal, if I were politically affiliated in any way, which IAM NOT, it would be along the libertarian gun toting american line.. But I don’t believe guns belong in city limits. and laws, don’t belong in my life. I’m just curious, since, you are the voice of “all” mission residents now, which, by the way, i’ve defected, I live in Bernal Heights. but I’ve been in or around the mission for a long time, and its not really ok that people are being forced out? do you not agree? how long have you lived here? do you have any chidren? how old are you? What’s binky doing right now?, while you are bust taking over the world from your arm chair on your laptop. Post a pic of your face, so I can introduce myself when I see you on the street. I’m a nice guy, google it, There’s lots of pictures of me.. lets get a coffee, maybe we could be friends. I’m open to all things.. hows that for Liberal?

          2. David, if your question there was whether I think it is “OK” that (some) people are being forced out, then I would reply as follows.

            While compulsion always sounds unfortunate, I think that a certain amount of natural turnover is good for a community. The Italians and Irish and Germans were “displaced” by Hispanics a few decades ago, and I would no more object to that than I would object now to a partial reversal of that trend as whites and asians move back here.

            And while evictions and foreclosures are not ideal, the better question is whether they are inevitable and, it an expanding knowledge economy, it is inevitable that some areas will become more high-income and may no longer suit those of modest means.

            American is a dynamic, expanding society, and I do not think that a sclerotic rate of turnover is conducive to growing our taxbase.

            I’be been here a couple of decades, I have children, and I think the Mission is improving all the time. I’m as real as you are.

  15. john, the all knowing voice of unreason. some people just don’t get it, but still like to talk, a lot.

    1. ramona, if you are new here, please note the way the indents work. It’s not clear which post you are responding to.

      Also, try and make your comments on the topic, and not vague personal attacks on other posters.

      Basic comments guidelines apply here as elsewhere.

  16. Slap another couple of zeroes on that $500 and I might consider doing something. $500 is f*cking PEANUTS for any artist or a designer.

    Imagine the outcry if they gave that $500 to a school for doing the same thing.

    For $500 I’ll draw giant crayon dicks on every one of their buses and I’m sure there are plenty of people who’ll help.

    1. Ah Tim, you are right. $500 is not a lot. It was a gesture to get a conversation going on our unofficial contest – A small reward for those keen to try to use the buses as a canvas–even a hypothetical canvas since we started this contest without any support from the companies that actually run the buses.
      Now, Genentech will select a design and their arrangement with the artist will be between Genentech and the artist, but my guess is that the arrangement will be fair and far more than our gesture of $500.
      We would love to see all the tech companies hire artists to wrap their buses.

      1. Exactly, Lydia. It is sad that there are some people here are so mired and vested in class warfare that they gainsay a delightful and innocent contest idea.

        They are a small minority, of course, but a noisy minority, evidently.

  17. Genentech and companies like it are a big part of why per-capita healthcare costs in the US are double that of other developed countries.

    Genentech makes huge profits on the backs of cancer patients.

    Look up Avastin profiteering for a little lesson on how the game works. Your taxes pay for the main research, Genentech gets a patent and charges $100k/year for the therapy. The company then kicks back part of the profits to politicians to head-off any legislative restrictions on their rip-off operation.

    So let’s paint pretty designs on the busses to give the impression it’s all love and light!

    1. The US has superior care to most other nations os it is hardly surprising if that costs more. I am personally a big investor in biotech companies because of their ground-breaking advances which will germinate large profits but which will also do huge amounts of good.

      There ain’t no free lunch.

      1. Incorrect.

        Health care outcomes in the US score lower in virtually all categories than Western Europe, despite costing DOUBLE.

        The difference is that in most civilized countries, illness is not considered a money making opportunity.

        1. The US figures for healthcare are skewed by the large number of poor who have bad health habits and who do not seek care in time.

          For those with insurance, who look after themselves, and who get regular checkups and care, outcomes are better than those socialist nations with far higher taxes.

          Americans want choice and flexibility with their healthcare, and not the “one system fits all” approach typical in Europe, with the nanny state making decisions for you.

          US care isn’t the cheapest, but it is the best.

          1. You don’t know what you’re talking about and are simply regurgitating Rush Limpbaugh factoids .

            US healthcare is the most expensive in the world by a huge margin, and less effective than other developed countries like Germany and Netherlands which spend half as much per capita.

            Healthcare iss twice as expensive in the US because of:

            A) Price gouging by Genentech et al
            B) Price gouging by insurance corporations
            C) Price gouging by hospital corporations
            D) Price gouging by medical device corporations

            This is what happens when the healthcare industry is permitted to bribe politicians en masse and thus make the rules.

            But as long as Genentech’s buses look pretty, I guess it’s OK.

          2. Ligthen up, nutrisystem. It’s just an art contest.

            I feel sorry for you if you cannot see a bus full of commuters without getting angry about whatever is the injustice of the day.

            Relax. It’s just a bus, not a vast right-wing conspiracy. Why do SF liberals always take themselves do damn seriously?

            And for the record, I have excellent, affordable care and would not swap my health cover for that of any other nation.

          3. The reason that people don’t seek care in time is because they are uninsured and don’t have access to healthcare.

            You prove nutrisystem’s point beautifully.

            Your argument is akin to saying “All Americans are rich if we ignore the roughly 95% who aren’t.”

          4. Wrong, landline, I didn’t say anything about respective incomes. What I said was that it is important to rpeserve the existing healthcare options because they are excellent for many of us and we do not want to change.

            But yes, not everyone gets the same care and having money generally gets you better care, just like it’s gets you better food, homes, vacations, cars and everything else.

            That’s why we like money, I guess.

  18. I know you’ll censor my comment, but “community mindfulness” and “sustainability” are two qualities lacking in these enormous urban beasts. That’s it! Paint jobs as great white sharks gobbling up space and fuel, blocking public bus stops, slowing traffic, delivering populations great distances to and fro five days a week.

    1. Russo,

      You risk coming across as a killjoy there. There is a variety of large vehicles that pass through the Mission and singling out commuter buses could strike people as being un-necessarily prejudicial.

      If you want to argue against all heavy vehicles in the Mission, or in the city, then fine – say that.

      But picking on just these buses and not, say, Muni buses, delivery trucks and other massive movers doesn’t seem justified.

      I think the competition is amusing, well-intentioned and harmless.

      1. Well, then there are a lot of killjoys in this city who don’t relish the procession of giant commuter buses in most neighborhoods. It’s a common complaint (¡hola piñata!). Giant tour buses also block city arteries.

        But another point is the fact that lesser paid people WHO WORK IN THEY CITY struggle to remain here in this obscenely inflated housing situation. (I believe I’ve already read about your contempt for average workers, John.)

        But really, my opinions shouldn’t surprise you, because they’re expressed constantly by SFers, if you get around.

        1. So, Russo, what you are really saying is that you do not like large vehicles in the city if and only if they are carry people of whom you disapprove, e.g. tech workers, white professionals and tourists.

          But if they are carrying people of whom you do approve like, say, a muni bus full of low-paid workers, then suddenly it is OK.

          IOW, you are arguing that road use policy should be set based on your own personal views about who should be in SF and who should not.

          I “get around” plenty and do not hear many people talking like you. Most people are more tolerant of people who are not like them i.e. they appreciate diversity.

          1. OK, John, so it’s suddenly “tolerance” and “diversity” you’re preaching. Sorry, you can’t do that AND simultaneously be a booster for the rich outsiders displacing diverse San Franciscans and their cultural influences. Nice try, bye.

          2. Russo, your idea of “diversity” is skewed.

            If previously there were no successful tech workers in the Mission, and now there are some, then that makes the Mission MORE diverse, not less.

            What you are calling diversity is really not diversity at all. It’s the exact opposite. You want to keep the Mission just for the kind of people who you like, while excluding the type that you do not like.

            Where is the “tolerance” in that?

          3. Sorry, the issue is that these commuter buses use public resources like muni stops to unload passengers. Which is an illegal use by a private entity of space reserved for Muni. This ends up blocking traffic, bike lanes and interferes with Muni’s “schedule”.

            Rather than whitewash there buses with “community themed” murals, why don’t they actually give back to the community and pay a fee for use of the bus stop? Until then there just another vehicle illegally parked in the bus stop.

            You must seriously not “get around” much if you think this isn’t an issue many people are talking about (or maybe you could just learn to expand your diversity bubble beyond the people who agree with you).

            …and really, _more_ tech workers driving up rental costs in the city only to commute to the peninsula for work doesn’t really count as “diversity” any more

          4. Fyoder,

            Maybe it is you who should “expand your diversity buddle beyond the people who agree with you”.

            Have you notice that it is some of your neighbors who are taking these buses? Are you suggesting that they do not support this commuting option? Or is their opinion somehow less important than yours?

            A google bus stopping at a bus stop is no more a private entity taking public space than a car or bike parked in the street is.

            Unless those buses break some city rule about the height, length or weight of a vehicle, then they are perfectly legal.

            Oh, and “parked” for a vehicle means the driver gets out and goes away. You are not “parked” anywhere if you are behind the wheel, with the engine running, and ready to move at a moment’s notice. which is why the cops never ticket me when I am in an illegal parking space UNLESS I am not present.

            Do you really have nothing else to dislike other than successful people having an extra commuting option?

          5. I lived in this city my entire life, Mr. cranky pants and I grew up embracing the diversity of lifestyles and cultures this city has to offer.

            You’re obviously new here, so I’ll forgive you for not knowing that blocking a muni stop is a Ticketable Offense (whether you are “parked” or “stopped”). The hubris of the way tech companies have moved in here and abused the infrastructure with no understanding or respect for how this city works is just the teensy bit grating though.

            Rather than driving big slow vehicles through the morning commute and illegally blocking muni stops, I’m wondering why my neighbors insist on living so far from where they work? Do you think they’re more important than the people who wait for Muni every morning? Because when they insist on stopping a commuter bus that has no business being there in the middle of a Muni stop and force them to wait 10 minutes while they load up that’s exactly what it seems like they’re thinking.

            I don’t know why you keep on insisting on inserting class warfare into your arguments, but I’m not jealous of tech workers having an extra commuting option. I just think they should have not have been dicks about the way they implemented it. Normally a fair amount of civic planning takes place before you plop an entire parallel transportation system on top of existing city infrastructure, but I guess these tech companies are just too important to follow all those silly rules, huh?

          6. Wrong on near everything there, “Fyodor”.

            I’m not new here – been here for 20 years.

            so there is only one traffic rule you think should be enforced, and that just happens to be where busses containing people you personally dislike chooses to stop? Really?

            It’s none of your business, nor my business, where workers choose to live nor how they get to work. If their employer wants to give theme xtra options, good for them. I feel no envy. I am happy for them. Do they really inconvenience you? Or do you just resent people with better jobs than you?

            It’s no more a “private transportation system” than if I give a work colleague a ride in my car. You need to worry less about what other people are doing.

          7. Look, it’s going to be hard to have a conversation with you if you’re just going to say “You’re wrong!” about everything while you’re not even be able to back up your claims.

            I brought up a traffic law that tech commuter buses routinely break in a way that inconveniences everyone during the busy morning commute. You proceeded to argue about that law in such an ignorant and patently false fashion that I was willing to generously overlook your ignorance on the assumption that you were probably a “newbie” and weren’t familiar with living in a city. If I was “wrong” about anything it was obviously giving you the benefit of a doubt. 😉

            The rest of your post a really a stinking mixture of ignorance and arrogance, but I’ll try to wade through it in a (probably doomed) attempt to set you straight.

            You claim I think only one traffic rule should be enforced, and you assume I have some malicious goal of selective enforcement to boot.

            I never said that. Do you honestly think I only think one traffic rule should be enforced?! Were you having a brain fart when you wrote that? I’m literally struggling to see how you could of derived such a stupid assumption from what I wrote.

            Furthermore, I don’t dislike techworkers at all. I don’t like it when anyone decides their own time is more important than anyone else’s and when people and companies think they’re too important to obey the law. I believe if tech workers choose to live here they should be responsible for devising their own internal transportation system that isn’t based on routinely breaking traffic laws and causing unnecessary traffic blockages.

            But once again you’re banging on the class war drum, trying to portray all opponents to your position as poor plebeians whose objections are solely rooted in jealousy. Stop trying to push your personal “class war” hangups into the discussion! I don’t know if this is just you projecting because “you” are secretly a really insecure and petty person, but it just makes you look arrogant and ignorant to assume that of others as the “only” reason they could “possibly” disagree with you.

            So yeah… I forgot where I was going with this, but basically: reign back your investment in class warfare, stop using straw man or emotion based arguments and stop projecting your own hangups on others. Sorry if that came out as harsh, but there’s really no point of my continuing this discussion if you can’t address these basic flaws in your communication skills.

          8. So, Fyodor, it is your view that it is a complete coincidence that the only buses that you are objecting to just happen to be the only buses used by young, white, successful, affluent commuters?

            You would in fact say the exact same thing about a bus full of poor hispanic construction or agricultural workers?

            Can you understand why people aren’t believing you? Even landline was honest enough to admit that he saw some “albeit nebulous” relationship between these buses and evictions.

            But you are too pure for such connections huh?

          9. Are you seriously race baiting right now?! I thought your arguments were just ignorant before, but I now I have to assume you’re actually a racist piece of sh*& too.

            I would be against one theoretical bus breaking the law, forcibly taking public infrastructure for private gain and causing causing traffic delays for everyone as much as I would be for the other theoretical bus. Because I think the actions I described are negative and I don’t think any bus should do it regardless of it’s ethnic composition (and why the HELL do you assume that tech commuter buses are only used by whites?! I work in tech and I’ll tell you first hand that my company has high percentages of Hispanic, Indian, Asian etc programmers too).

            Look, man, your only response to the points I’ve made is to respond with class-baiting and now even race-baiting. You have proven that you don’t care at all about diversity of opinion by the way you lazily rely on emotional arguments to dismiss the validity of those who disagree with you. All you have done is prove to everyone that YOU are the kind of person that has no respect or concern for the communities and culture of this city.

            I don’t know if you even work in tech, but you are literally validating the opinions of those who think tech workers are willfully and knowingly dismantling this city’s communities and culture with every one of your callous and asinine comments. The worst part of it all is, you could be part of the solution by actively listening to the concerns of the community in this forum, but you’re willfully choosing to push race and class based divisions instead.

          10. Fyodor, maybe you didn’t do this but others have whined about these buses because the commuters are mostly white.

            And others have bemoaned evictions because the evictees are not white.

            I didn’t play the first race card here but will continue to slap down those who do.

            The rest of your small essay missed my point. Why are you focusing ONLY on these buses?

          11. I’ve read through a good deal of the comments on this article now and I can state confidently that you are the ONLY person I’ve seen engaging in class-baiting and race-baiting and personally I’ve found the way you’ve gone about it to be very ignorant, close minded and offensive.

            As for why I’m objecting to the specific traffic law commuter buses are breaking, I’ll just copy and paste one of my replys to you from earlier in another thread.

            “I’m personally focused on “that one traffic law” because that’s the law being routinely broken. If commuter buses were speeding through red lights I’d focus on that law instead.”

          12. Nope. Fail. That’s not what I said at all.

            I clearly stated that I’m focusing on this law because it is being routinely broken and would be concerned about other laws as well if they were being routinely broken as well.

          13. Nope, you’re outright lying, claiming I said something I clearly never did, and, by some twisted logic equating my opinion that commuter buses should follow the same laws as everyone else as spiteful discrimination against tech workers.

            You’re being dishonest, presumptive and borderline incoherent.

          14. Fyodor, the more you lash out with personal attacks, the weaker your argument look.

            My points stand as stated.

          15. Your point?

            You’re claim I’m intentionally ignoring all other traffic violations (and furthermore doing so because I dislike tech workers)?

            That’s a lie and it’s clearly not supported by any evidence in this conversation. You can continue to hide behind your lie, but I know your lying, you know your lying and every person who happens to read this thread will know you’re lying.

          16. Yes, i claim you are singling out one minor traffic infraction, our of thousands, because it has political import.

            You finally got it. Well done. You can deny it if you want but, frankly, it is way too late for that to be credible.

          17. John is a dishonest commenter. He is trying to drag me back into the discussion by referring to comments that I never made: “Even landline was honest enough to admit that he saw some ‘albeit nebulous’ relationship between these buses and evictions.”

            Like the boy who cried wolf, he is best ignored.

          18. landline, are you seriously seeking here to deny that you see any connection between google buses, gentrification and evictions?

            That you and a couple of other people get so worked up about a cute little art project makes no sense unless you are relating all these issues.

            It’s not about who can use bus stops at all. I have already shown that beyond all reasonable doubt.

          19. Thanks, landline.

            Johm: I understood you were “trying” to assert your ridiculous claim the whole time, but it’s such a blatant and obvious lie that I never took it seriously. And I still don’t take it seriously. So good job I guess? You just made a fool of yourself in another thread (which apparently is a regular occurrence for you.

          20. LOL, Fyodor, so your final answer is that am art contest should be cancelled because sometimes a bus might linger in a bus stop contrary to some obscure bye-law that you still cannot cite?

            And that that has NOTHING to do with any ideological prejudice you might have against this commuting option?

            Sorry, but you investing WAAY too much effort in denying that for it to be anything but the truth.

    2. Issues of the privatization of public transportation aside, these buses are better than the alternative: hundreds (thousands?) of employees driving individually in cars. Better for the environment and for traffic. I’ve driven behind and seen these buses in the Mission many times and have never noticed them blocking bus stops or slowing traffic.

      On another note, this article would be improved with more details about Genentech’s alleged interest in community mindfulness and sustainability. Does the company invest in these issues? Donate worker time?

      1. It’s not clear to me why these buses can in any way be regarded as the “privatization” of public transit.

        Muni stops at the city boundary and these commuters are all going well beyond that. So they in no way take traffic from Muni.

        You could perhaps argue that they take some traffic away from BART and CalTrain, but they operate at capacity during the rush hour.

        Point well taken on the good they do replacing cars, however.

        1. It is impossible to 100% take public transportation (Caltrain/BART) to get to Genentech.

          The company takes an entire week in the summer to volunteer work. They offer donation matching to 501(c)3 organizations. There are tons of opportunities to do community service even on campus, and the time spent doing that is rewarding at I believe a rate of $10/hr to be given to charity.

          There is an entire club (the largest on campus) dedicated to discussing and addressing environmental concerns. Everything in the cafeterias that is not glassware/metal cutlery is compostable, and there are more compost bins than trash cans…

          I could go on.

          1. So that SSF Caltrain station I walk by every morning is a figment of my imagination? And the SamTrans 130 I take from Colma BART (after taking the 118 from Pacifica) is also imaginary?

            Please. I am 100% behind the buses, but let’s not pretend it’s not transit accessible.

        1. I’ve seen Muni buses block streets as well.

          Or is that somehow completely different? Because you just happen to prefer and approve of the people inside?

          1. No John, it’s because it’s against the law to park or block a Muni stop. They should at least be paying the city a fee for using the space if they really cared about giving back to the community.

          2. If the driver stays with the vehicle then there is no offense.

            Why not be honest? You hate these buses because they contain commuters who are more successful than you.

          3. No John, blocking a bus stop IS a ticketable offense. Will you admit you’re wrong now?

            As far as my success goes, let me just say it’s secure enough not to get uptight about some libertarian weekend warrior lobbing bombs at me from behind his keyboard. 😉

            p.s. you really overplayed your hand displaying your disdain of artists and the working class in your many comments here. Friendly piece of advice: work on respecting and appreciating the cultures and diversity that have made this city such a desirable place to live and you might just expand your mind enough for it to pop out of yer butt.

          4. “Weekend warrior?” If only readers of this website were that lucky.

            Public bus stops are for public buses, not private shuttles. Period. End of discussion.

          5. LOL, landline, so the “discussion is over” because you say so. Sorry. Doesn’t work that way.

            All types of buses stop at bus stops and not just Muni. I’ve seen SamTrans and GG Transit buses use such stops, as well as a variety of shuttles and private buses.

            No different from a bus lane which also does not discriminate.

            Judging buses by who takes them is borderline discrimination.

          6. Samtrans and GG Transit are public buses. Public bus stops are for public buses. If private shuttles or personal vehicles stop in those bus stops, they are violating the traffic code and subject to sanction.

            Repeating the same falsehoods does not make them correct. It only underscores a lack of understanding and critical thought.

          7. landline, you seem hung up on this private versus public distinction that is important to far-left liberals and most unimportant the vast majority.

            Does a bus lane differentiate based on who owns the bus? Do you even know who owns a bus? A private entity might charter buses to a public entity, or Muni might loan one of their vehicles for a private charter. Non issue.

            A bus stop is nothing but a place where car parking spaces are removed so that buses can stop there. I fail to see any difference regardless of what you claim is in the traffic code (but interestingly cannot cite).

            Regardless, a good bus stops there ten times a week. It’s hardly a massive conflict. And the cops clearly do not regard it as a ticketing priority, and rightly so.

            Why not just admit it’s all about envy for you?

          8. Why do you bring irrelevant personal attacks about envy into every argument?

            Other commenters and I have accurately described the rules about the use of public bus stops.

            You are wrong, so as you are prone to do, you deflect, change the subject and insult.

            Is it your lack of control or your lack of productive outlets for your less than profound ramblings that compels you to clutter this and other websites?

          9. Wrong twice there, landline

            1) you have cited no law that shows that the traffic laws for buses critically depend on who owns the bus – private or public

            2) I said nothing personal but merely offered an alternative theory for your hostility here. If the exact same bus was carrying Hispanic workers to their place of work, you’d be cheering them on.

            It’s about WHO is in those buses and your apparent prejudice against them.

          10. landline, in theory we could all be cited for minor transgressions but the cops do not give much priority to trivial trnasgressions ;and rightly so.

            And there was no race-baiting. My contention is that you are only opposed to these buses because of the people using them, of whom you evidently disapprove.

            If these were private buses taking people you like, you’d not be ranting on and on about it.

            These buses are a non issue to the vast majority of people I know. A few ideologs get all rabid about them, but it is not really about the obstruction, which is trivial. It is about class warfare.

          11. I oppose the privatization of our publc spaces whether that is by private employee shuttle buses or casino buses.

            You are making unfounded assumptions and also showing a profound lack of intelligence. Or in common English, you are talking out of your ass and you are stupid.

          12. Sorry John.
            It is a ticketable offense to stop or block a bus stop. You were wrong about this and your ham handed attempts to make this about class warfare and parse distinctions between public and private is really just showing how pathetically far you will go to not admit you were wrong and your inability to make a case for yourself that isn’t based on emotions and straw men fallacies.

          13. Fyodor, you might be right, but not because you say so, but because you have some proof.

            Anyway, why focus on that one traffic rule and not the 9,999 others?

            I know why. It’s because of who is using those buses.

          14. I’m personally focused on “that one traffic law” because that’s the law being routinely broken. If commuter buses were speeding through red lights I’d focus on that law instead. Understand how my reasoning works here?

            It shouldn’t be that hard a concept for even you to grasp, if you can pull yourself away from your predilection towards the politics of division and class warfare long enough to examine the point rationally.

          15. I haven’t seen any posts from you where other traffic rules ahave been discussed here though, and there have been many articles on bike safety, parking issues, road safety and so on.

            Quite a coincidence that only this traffic issue arouses your ire and leads to post over and over and over.


          16. Have you seen any posts from me on this site period? CAMP shared a link to this article on Facebook yesterday and I probably wouldn’t of commented at all except for the fact that I couldn’t resist rebutting your obnoxious and ignorant classist posts.

          17. Fyodor, the insulting adjective you have just used proves you are not interest in genuine debate on this issue.

            Perhaps as a newbie here you did not realize they are contrary to the posting guidelines.

          18. I was trying to be very civil to you in the beginning, John. But your constant accusations and repetitive use of class-baiting and race-baiting has been very insulting.

          19. No, you have been argumentative from the start. Apparently I had the temerity to refute you and then you started with the insults.

            I will not stoop to that but I will call you put on it.

          20. That’s patently false.

            I entered this conversation by pointing out that commuter buses blocking muni stops were not only breaking the law but taking public resources for private profit and you immediately engaged in class-baiting by saying that I was just “jealous of those who were more successful than me”. You never once refuted me my points, preferring to continue to engage in class baiting and race-baiting as a way to ignore the issues of illegality and exploitation of common resources.

          21. I am merely asking you why you are focusing only on a very small percentages of vehicles that do that?

            It seems you are focused only on vehicles that contain affluent successful people.

          22. No John, I’ve focused on the law that commuter buses routinely break. Since commuter buses are the subject of this article and this comment thread I naturally focused on them. It would have been pretty off topic if I started going off about how too many vehicles merge illegally into the bike lane.

            You continue to engage in class-baiting rather than address my points, so I’ll ask you flat out… Do you think it is right that commuter vehicles routinely break traffic laws that we expect everyone else to follow and do you believe it is right that some tech companies forcibly occupy city property reserved for our public transportation for their own private gain?

          23. I’ll answer this way. The fact that SFPD do not ticket buses using a bus stop is probably good evidence EITHER that there is no law against it at all OR that it is a minor transgression and there are far worse violations going on.

            I maintain that these complaints about Google buses are not proportional to any delay or congestion caused, but rather are emblematic of a purely political opposition grounded in envy.

          24. OMG. There is a flipping law against it.
            Stop reveling in your ignorance and just look it up if you don’t believe me.

            And the city of San Francisco apparently agrees with my position because they’re already proposing limiting the rampant use of muni stops by commuter buses and charging fees for this unfair exploitation of public space by a private entity.

            So it’s actually already been established that there is a broad and deep consensus here that commuter buses harmful impact on the city has to be addressed and regulated. You may continue to believe all opposition to your viewpoints are politically motivated if you want to, but I hope you can at least now admit that your views are that of a vocal (and very prolific!) minority.

          25. What does that have to do with an art project?

            If there are a few minor regulations that need to be finessed, then fine. But why seek to deprive budding artists of an opportunity to win some money and some kudos? Seems way beyond petty to me.

            Unless, of course, you have a political axe to grind here.

          26. Lol.

            Okay, sure. Completely change the subject once you’ve been proven wrong (I’m getting a strong feeling of deja vu here and I’ve really just met you!). I would feel kind of bad for you, but I can already tell that you deserve all the humiliations and indignities your dishonest ways and lousy attitude earns you.

          27. I never said this was about who can use a bus stop or not.

            In fact i have said several times it is irrelevant.

            I am repudiating the notion that that is your real motive for trying to undermine an innocent art contest.

    3. Right, because it would be much better for all of those employees to drive their own cars to work, parking on the street, congesting traffic on the very roads on which muni busses travel.